NÖms 2012

The accusation concerning the dices was not made by tournament players in the first, but by the guys from Tirol, to whom you obviously shared another history. Paper and Katuckikek you plaid against this time, defended you on that special issue. But their and Ruffy's accusations (fair players of high skills and respected by everybody) are in my opinion even harder - because all your list mistakes due to not remembering the list not given to you by the Orga seem to be totally to your advantage. That is strange.
The bad thing about it, is, that there is time, stress and even money in joining a tournament - so nobody wants to invest further energy in always beeing aware of misunderstandings like these.

Plus if you "found out" on day 1 that your list did not have a BSB, why did you still use it on the second day? Just wheeling instead of doing Swift Reforms also doesn't work at all if you shuffle backwards.

If you didn't have a list, why didn't you just re-write it with the armybook? Did you base the 200 extra points on the assumption that the list could be right without knowing it?

I must admit I am pretty pissed just as your other opponents.

ok i don't know who is from where, so i answer to everyone, i don't know people by name.

of course the dice accusation is worse. I didn't know i wouldn't have a list printed out in the tournament. So anyone that gets up before 4am, drives for 450km, and then spells out a list by heart without mistakes (without knowing you would have to remember it), even though i've played it in countless versions before - if you're going to be 100% then your memory is a lot better than mine. I knew i would have to show the list, but i didn't know i'd have to print it. Like i said before, usually we get our lists printed by the tourney organizers, so everyone has the same layout and there are no mistakes.

second of all, if i didn't have musicians i could've turned normally. not once did i get ambushers or miners. Nor would i need the reroll for the failed tests then.. and the catapult upgrades didn't matter either.

Original von testwhfb
ok let me answer the 9 points then.

1. ok that was my mistake 100% and i should have failed the charge. But i died in that charge anyway and i didn't really do anything.

My demygriffons would have been in a far better position after destroying your chariots. And the knights could have gone for your casket. It always makes a difference.

2. when did i reform my second unit of chariots?? why?

3. the archers don't need to reform, if i knew i didn't have musicians i would tilt the archers in regards to your units and wheel them.

You reformed the chariots to shoot at the cannon. It's true that most of your reforms were not very important. I had my targets out of range anyway but still you did without being able to.

4. the banners should be on archers. This is a mistake i'm looking into with the friend who made the lists. Obviously i don't need the standards on the charios (unless they're magical) and i asked him to put them on the archers, for the scenario!

5. i don't really remember this, but i could just reform them, they don't need to fire?

They needed to block my demygriffons and it was important that they come closer the 4".

6. again, if i knew i didn't have the BSB i wouldn't swift reform, but do as i've written above.

Seriously, not knowing if there is a BSB in the list for 5 games ... no way.

7. ok this was my mistake and for this i'm sorry. But you didn't fail the ld once, so i was stupid, but it didn't make a difference.

My carrier had to pass a test on LD7 and rolled 7. It made no difference but in my opinion whether it had influence or not is not the point about all of this.

8. first of all this is just heresay. I always specified who the sergeant was and he does hit on a 4+

Of course, I am not talking about your sergeants with the defined croatian die. But to avoid it, most players pick up the missed shots and leave the successful hits on the table. Maybe you should do it like that the next time.

9. this one i remember, you just claimed that i rolled, but i said nothing? i dropped a dice and you automatically assumed that's what it was. If it bothered you so much, you could've said so.

Well, you said. "Umm, what am i doing. Breath weapon is 2D6." As you are a good player I just presume that you 1. know how many dice to use for a breath weapon and 2. know that your template-attack makes more hits BEFORE the breath weapon. So why would you play it the other way round.

This point cannot be proven by me. It's the rest of your "mistakes" which makes me feel that my bad impression of this was not without reason.

When that many things come together I am just not willing to accept them as "mistakes" any more. I presume intention.

And seriously, you are a very nice guy. Why not play fair and maybe end up 3rd or 4th from time to time?

Original von testwhfb

ok Yersinia i'm sorry if i remember something wrongly about that tournament, but answer this - if i had dice which can't fail one roll, how did i completely loose my very first game? You probably remember i had thunderwolves with a 3+ inv save, if i had dice that alway succeed and roll a 5-6 most of the times, don't you think i would win? instead i lost the Twolves in the 2nd turn after i failed a pinning test and was then defeated 20:0 and i think the player won the tournament as well (don't know what he was called, but i he was the better player) and i used all of my dice normally that game.

Hi!

I´am your opponent from the tournament in charintia,who won the first game against u. The result was 30:10, cause i tap ur objevtive in 4 round with marbo, cause u made a mistake with moving ur unit on the objective.

Ur thunderwolves where pinned in 2nd turn(thx psykers) and where shot in my third shootuing phase. So ur twc(thunderwolvecavalry) has saved 3 shooting phases of my imperial army. There where a lot of 3+ saves that u made. U only had to do the pinning check, cause i killed ur Lord with a rocket of my manticore(no eternal warrior). I only thought u are a well classed dicer, put after the tournament, where 4 of ur enemys said, that all vehicles u shot where killed with 5s or 6s on the result table after the first penetrating hit, i remembered my 2 Vendettas who died same way and ur 4 or 5 saved covers in a row from my shots on ur rhino.

I cant say that u have cheating dice, but i think it. If 5 players on the tournament have the same experiences made against u, i cant talk from a contingency.

Original von El Gungo
Jetzt mal eine ernste Frage an die Community:
Wie gehen wir mit jemanden um, der in 9 Punkten betrügt. Fehler können passieren, wäre es ein Punkt in einem Spiel wird man darüber hinwegsehen (obwohl in keinster Weise korrekt!!!).

Soll man aber jemanden der in mehreren Spielen mehrfach wohl absichtlich betrügt in der Wertung lassen? Was hätte das in weiterer Folge für eine Vorbildwirkung.

Ich möchte das am Mittwoch mit Euch im Club gerne diskutieren.

LG

Ich denke der Imageschaden ist schon groß genug für den Typen. Jeder der das hier liest, egal ob es stimmt oder nicht, hat den Typen jetzt als den mega Betrüger abgestempelt.

Im Grunde muss man einfach sehr vorsichtig sein. So wie sich das nach euren Berichten anhört hat die Khemriflasche euch ja nach Strich und Faden betrogen. Ich schließe mich da dem Kaazadoom an und möchte euch alle bitten nicht über zu reagieren. Bleibt ruhig. Es ist nur ein Spiel...mehr oder weniger.

Sorry, ich war zu lange Fussballschiedsrichter. Wenn dort einer eine grobe Unsportlichkeit begeht (in diesem Fall sogar über 5 Spiele!) fliegt er mit Rot vom Platz.

Ganz ohne Emotion meinerseits.

LG

Ich denke eine Zurückreihung auf den letzten Platz wäre angemessen, ein Ausschluss von österreichischen Turnieren dagegen übertrieben.

Zefix, ich verstehe die Tiroler nicht mal, wenn sie englisch schreiben.

Aber was ich verstehe, geht ja wohl in die gleiche Richtung und der Stormi würde wohl nie leichtfertig sowas sagen.
Was ist zu tun, auch im Hinblick auf andere Turniere?

Edit: Nö. Das muss richtig hart sein. Ich würde auf keinen Fall zur nächsten NÖMS fahren, wenn der Name in der Teilnehmerliste wieder auftaucht. Und das hätte die Orga nun wirklich nicht verdient.

Ja sehe ich genauso. Zurückreihung und Schwamm drüber.

LG

ok i don't know who is from where, so i answer to everyone, i don't know people by name.

of course the dice accusation is the worse. I didn't know i wouldn't have a list printed out in the tournament. So anyone that gets up before 4am, drives for 450km, and then spells out a list by heart without mistakes (without knowing you would have to remember it), even though i've played it in countless versions before - if you're going to be 100% then your memory is a lot better than mine. I knew i would have to show the list, but i didn't know i'd have to print it. Like i said before, usually we get our lists printed by the tourney organizers, so everyone has the same layout and there are no mistakes.

second of all, if i didn't have musicians i could've turned normally. not once did i get ambushers or miners. Nor would i need the reroll for the failed tests then..

and no, this is a point i have to insist upon. IF you won't believe that i made a mistake with the list, than you have to ban me. It's simple, i'd much rather be banned, than to say ok just make me last and let's forget about it, as i really did not cheat on purpose. And that would be just admitting it. At least that's my point.

Assuming it was unintentional, why would the organizer not just rank you back/disqualify you for playing with an illegal list?

Alex please print the lists next time it is really useful for all players.
At best make a folder, it helps so much to prevent those issues.
Also make clear that it is up to the players to check the lists after the game. (which i never did tbh)

The language barrier is also not an insignificant factor in all of this.

edit: thats only one of many reasons why i like open lists :D.

Ibz, I would like to welcome you to another tournament to show us that you know how to play fair games.

Original von Sir Ratlos
Zefix, ich verstehe die Tiroler nicht mal, wenn sie englisch schreiben.

ok sorry for the last post, wrong reply, but i'm using notepad to translate.

1st off, to the 40k player. We can't discuss what happened 1 year ago because you can say A and i can say B and we can argue till the end of times. But you didn't lower my Ld with the psy squad, because if you had done so, i would've fled as well. Which would've worked in my favour as marines autoregroup.

ruffy, no that is ok, i have no problems with that. But don't let me of the hook if you think i'm a cheater. If i let you say he's a cheater, let's just put him in the last place, then you did nothing. Either you believe that i made a mistake (i was dead tired and it is a list i change constantly and yes it's usually for a 2600 list) and you do whatever, or you ban me. I'm sure you can understand that, it's the same reason why the dice argument bothers me a lot more. It's one thing to make a mistake (i still claim game wise i could've easily played without the musicians or the reroll) after a long drive, whole other thing to cheat on purpose. You can't really mistakingly load your dice..

Original von Sir Ratlos
Zefix, ich verstehe die Tiroler nicht mal, wenn sie englisch schreiben.

Aber was ich verstehe, geht ja wohl in die gleiche Richtung und der Stormi würde wohl nie leichtfertig sowas sagen.
Was ist zu tun, auch im Hinblick auf andere Turniere?

Edit: Nö. Das muss richtig hart sein. Ich würde auf keinen Fall zur nächsten NÖMS fahren, wenn der Name in der Teilnehmerliste wieder auftaucht. Und das hätte die Orga nun wirklich nicht verdient.

Und dabei hab ich mir Mühe gegeben.

Hab gegen ihn in Kärnten gespielt, klar am Tisch ist der Typ supernett, aber naja, das "Glück"
was der über 5 Spiele hatte war eben nicht normal. Wenn deine wichtigsten Panzer in die Luft fliegen in 2 Runden dann läuft da irgendwas falsch. Klar kann das mal passieren, aber nicht 5 Spiele lang.

Hat dann gottseidank nen Stellungsfehler gemacht, so dass ich ihn noch eintüten konnte, die anderen 4 Gegner hat er aber astrein weggemacht/würfelt und da waren nicht alles Opfer dabei.

Wenn der wieder auf nem 40k Turnier ist, werden meine StandardGW Würfel verwendet. Kein wenn und aber.

Das die Orga würfel stellt würde das Problem beheben, ich mag aber einfach meine Würfel, da ich fast zu jeder Armee eigene Würfel habe. Ich denke nun kennt ihr den Knaben aber auch in Fantasy und das Listenbecheaten is ja die Oberfrechheit. Kann mir niemand erzählen, dass ich nicht weiß, dass ich kein CMS gekauft habe und meine magischen Banner die Einheiten wechseln. Bei mir waren im Transporter auch immer andere Einheiten drinnen, wie er davor gesagt hat und dann hat er gemeint ich hätte ihn falsch verstanden.

Original von ibz
1st off, to the 40k player. We can't discuss what happened 1 year ago because you can say A and i can say B and we can argue till the end of times. But you didn't lower my Ld with the psy squad, because if you had done so, i would've fled as well. Which would've worked in my favour as marines autoregroup.

No we cant. But one last comment. U had 4 TWC and a Lord, so 5 Modells. I killed your Lord with the Manticore so u get a pinning Test, but no test for fleeing cause i cant knock u 25% of your troop out(only 20% ). 3 surviving psykers lower ur morale. Rest u have shot with ur longfangs.

Having the lists printed out one time is a wise thing to do as an organizer, but I am not sure how this would have changed things. I think we all trust each other so that lists are not checked after every game.

The language barrier is minor since we all speak English (OK, the Tyrollean English reminds me on some south American dialects, just in an Austrian way if you get my point...)


LG

Original von General_Sepp

Ich denke der Imageschaden ist schon groß genug für den Typen. Jeder der das hier liest, egal ob es stimmt oder nicht, hat den Typen jetzt als den mega Betrüger abgestempelt.

Im Grunde muss man einfach sehr vorsichtig sein. So wie sich das nach euren Berichten anhört hat die Khemriflasche euch ja nach Strich und Faden betrogen. Ich schließe mich da dem Kaazadoom an und möchte euch alle bitten nicht über zu reagieren. Bleibt ruhig. Es ist nur ein Spiel...mehr oder weniger.

Ich zum Beispiel nicht. Und ich hab dagegen gespielt. Bei mir kann ers wirklich vergessen haben. Keinerlei Tricks mit Würfeln und das mit den Musikern kann passieren. Abkaufen tu ichs ihm nicht ganz aber ok. Der BSB is halt hart...

Original von Sir Ratlos
Zefix, ich verstehe die Tiroler nicht mal, wenn sie englisch schreiben.

Made my day!

It would have helped in having a list available when he found out that they were not printed out by the tournament orga, so if it was unintentional, then he would have had a correct list.

I am in no position to punish/ban you or anything like that, it's just not my decision. Just as the other Demon player I am upset that this "mistake" cost us both the chance to win the tournament. All other things just sway people in the "it was intentional"-direction.

All die erfahrenen Spieler, die hier jetzt einen auf Peace und Jesus machen, dass ich fast würgen muss, sollen sich mal überlegen, ob man nicht auch eine Verantwortung gegenüber den weniger Fortgeschrittenen oder einfach Fun- und Gentlemanspielern hat, die unsere Turniere besuchen - und bereichern - und die mit so einem Stil ohne den Hauch einer Chance abgezockt werden, dass es eine Schande ist - weil sie eben nicht euer Potential haben, sich zur Wehr zu setzen oder das im Spiel überhaupt zu bemerken. Da müsste eure Solidarität sein - ist aber nur mM.